or maybe Port Adelaide stop singing INX, and start singing John and Yoko?
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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
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or maybe Port Adelaide stop singing INX, and start singing John and Yoko?
like snake said, in the old world, it would take 3 elections to regain 25 seats.
these days, you could have a deep fake sex tape of Adam Bandt and Zali Steggle and Albo 3some spreading monkeypox on a Chinese solar submarine on instagram tomorrow morning,
and Dutton as president by Friday
the entitled are particularly poor at losing, by definition 
this is a joyous read.
www.theguardian.com
Paul Murray resistance
gonna be a looooong decade fellas
this is a joyous read.
In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right
Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’
Paul Murray resistance
gonna be a looooong decade fellas
Zoe Daniel has described herself as a former Liberal voter. Zali Steggall as well.
But as the author of the article Scoop shared observes. Doesn't mean that they are moderate libs now as they try to make themselves out to be. In fact, they are actually left of Labor and right of the greens on quite a bit. Not wedged between the Libs and ALP as a moderate lib would be. So it's a combination of two things. It's not just that the Libs have moved right and these moderates haven't moved, hence have been left out in the cold - as Zali and Zoe infer. I'm not disagreeing with their assertion that the Libs have moved to the right. But they are being dishonest saying they haven't conversely moved left of where they ever have been in their previous lives. And that's what the author of Scoop's article picked up on.
Mind you that wasn't the main crux of the article, it was more an interesting side point. What the article was going more deeply into was the complex ways that social class is still a factor in voting patterns. The social media driven world is so obsessed with the politics of identity (gender, sex, sexuality and race) that it's as if we nearly forgot that social class and the tribalism around that is such a thing. And that it still can have a strong influence over how people vote.
Depends how you describe left and right. Why is climate change a 'left' issue? IMO it isn't, or shouldn't be.
Sorry PT, this is really a bizarre take. Holmes a Court set up Climate 200 - a foundation for those concerned with climate change, women and social justice. He provided just 2% of the funding - the rest was from donations from individuals and organisations concerned with this. Sure, he's wealthy, but unlike most wealthy people he's interested in positive social change rather than just ensuring he gets the next nickel mine licence like Palmer. In a similar vein we have Michael Cannon-Brookes (CEO Atlassian) who is from a wealthy background, a billionaire through software development (hello Jira) who is nevertheless concerned about climate and prepared to fund investment in change. To view these people as immoral just because they are wealthy is wrong-headed.
You also have the Teal candidates wrong - these are largely professional women, often with Liberal party backgrounds and pedigree who have been betrayed by the Coalition on climate and social issues.
One thing you have kind of right - people are abandoning the major parties on both sides as they don't represent them as they used to. But then you fall into the left/right dichotomy trap of trying to place them "in between Labor and the Greens".
Not just climate. Other issues too. It's just that the climate part got so much focus, not a lot of drilling down into the rest of their platform,
But I do find some agreement with some of what you say. I'm a unique political beast with very divergent views on a range of issues that puts me ideologically all over the place. Like I've said before, it leaves me with ambivalent feelings whoever wins an election. I had a culturally working (to lower middle) class, but socially conservative upbringing. And that's still where I sit politically. I relate to 'Red Tory' and 'Blue Labour' schools of thought in the UK that might be a bit right of center socio-culturally, but a slightly left of centre economically (however being geared more towards concepts of 'distributism' and 'community capitalism' rather than socialism as their expression of left of centre economic preference).
However I was always raised to have an environmental conscience. But it was expressed more a form of what would be referred to in the UK and Canada as 'green conservatism'. Being conservative (or traditionalist) in a social sense I never felt put me at odds with an environmental conscience. In fact, the word conservative and conservation come from the same root. They are complementary concepts. Early environmentalists actually were from the conservative part of the spectrum.
So I don't really consider we have a conservative party as such in Australia. We have a Liberal party with conservative people in it. And that's the reason there has been such resistance to the climate change issue.
Cultivating a Green Conservatism - Clean Prosperity
There is an old model of the economy that is well lodged in the heads of my generation of business people and politicians. It envisions the economy as a sequence of functions—extraction, processing, manufacturing, distribution, and consumption. And, oh yes, then there is the environment and...
cleanprosperity.ca
no. the primary vote of the coalition higher. split the Liberal and National vote and we get 23.8% for the libs and 32.8% for Labor. Every election the greens gets far more primary votes then the nationals, but the nationals win more seats. methinks you're just salty over the result.
I will also add that traditional Labor voters would have voted strategically. for example, if you were a Labor voter in Kooying, you would have probably voted for Dr Monique Ryan.
Oh, and should I take the time to remind you that Hillary had almost 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016?
He looked doped up at his presser yesterday.
If that’s true, then it just shows out of touch he is. Frydenberg lost his seat for 2 reasons:
1. Did not stand up to the extremists in his party.
2. The perception in Victoria was abandoned by the feds during the pandemic. Frydenberg was vocal in his praise of the NSW COVID response.
Well get used to it because this might be the last election result for a long, long time where a party wins an outright majority. The popularity of the independents is incentive for more grassroots campaigns in the future. The success of the greens is a factor as well.
I have always argued that state issues and federal issues are not related. But this election is different because the COVID response intertwined state and federal issues.
What I found funny is that the Liberals honestly believed the “Andrews Factor” was gonna help them. The 8% swing in Victoria is partly due to Andrews popularity and parttly due to the dislike of the “PM of NSW.” We saw exactly the same trend in WA.
I wouldn’t call the election a landslide for Labor, but it was a big loss for the coalition. If they end up with 58 seats, that means they will need to win 18 seats in 3 years time to form a majority. That’s a big task. Labor looks likely to have a cumulative increase of about 9 or 10 seats. The Libs will have to double that result to win.
And then you add ICAC, the Robodebt Royal Commission, plus appointing a very unpopular man as its new leader, its hard to imagine them forming government for a while.
Sure, to some degree.
But is an element of a lookaway handpass with the super wealthy? A bit like Coca Cola putting their employees through compulsory intensive "anti-racism" indoctrination.....sorry education seminars. With such bizarre quasi-religious concepts as teaching them to be "less white".
Meanwhile Coca-Cola are busy coercing local officials to siphon off water supplies from communities that can ill afford it, to feed their plants. Adding insult by selling it back as bottled water and soft dring at a 1000x mark up. Paying near slave labour levels in third world countries. Using sophisticated transfer pricing and shell companies via off shore tax havens and their wealthy directors and senior management doing likewise. But it's all OK and forgiven, because they are saving the world with their apparent social awareness, while using working class folk they employ as the scape goat for all the social evils in the world.
You're not wrong, but It is much more complicated. The word root thing is a red herring, homosexual and homophobia come from the same root. Its true rich people started the conservation movement, they were the only people who had time to read and think and travel, it lives on in the Sierra Club in the US. It was about protecting scenic holiday and picnic spots from the worst impacts of the industrial revolution. Fencing off nice places. The modern environmental movement stated in the 50s and is about ecology, connection, inherent environmental values. It is a left wing thing.
Its true old school conservatism has a streak of conservation as well as social justice, but neo-conservatism does not, and that is what conservatism is now and has been since the 80s. Your opinion on what a conservative party should be, and I agree with that, won't change what they actually are here and all over the world.
Yep, was a part of it here in Aston, was a fantastic campaign and result!
On a lighter note. ... anyone else see the swearing in ceremony?
I'll preface this by saying. .... I love our country. .. but geezus the national anthem is terrible.
You get forced to sing it after the Queens man enters the room. ... obviously Albos son don't like it either. .. did the old move ya lips up and down and pretend you're joining in!
I'll preface this by saying. .... I love our country. .. but geezus the national anthem is terrible.
You get forced to sing it after the Queens man enters the room. ... obviously Albos son don't like it either. .. did the old move ya lips up and down and pretend you're joining in!
Frydenburg always sounds like this to me. It actually baffles me that he was considered a future leader of the LNP, he has no charisma at all and comes across poorly IMO.
Funny read.... Andrew Boltthe entitled are particularly poor at losing, by definition
this is a joyous read.
In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right
Sky After Dark regulars say the Liberal party must distinguish itself by appealing to ‘conservative values that Labor have abandoned’
Paul Murray resistance
gonna be a looooong decade fellas
Grab your tissues as you watch this one!
Tend to agree with these. This may have been a resounding victory to the left and for a swing towards focusing on climate change but to indicate it is a landslide for the ALP is acting blind. Sure in terms of seats that appears right, but those seats have swung on preferences not due to primary voting on the ALP. The general mistrust of both major parties has led to this for sure. The public still remember the backstabbing impacts of the last ALP governments.
I do think you could be right with your above statement too. It will really come down to the ALP and how they can engage with those swing voters, who have essentially abandoned both major parties with their primary vote. the ALP shouldn't be ignoring that but be finding out how to engage with them and the core issues that concern them. If the ALP play this well, they could govern for a long time. Play this weakly and we could be looking at a minority government in 3 years time with a further swing towards independent candidates.
The Libs will need to rebrand themselves away from the current morons. They need to move away from the likes of Morrison, Frydenburg and Dutton but it appears that isn't the path they will be going down.
What the hell does Coca-Cola have to do with Holmes'a'Court???
Sorry PT, that's just an antiwoke rant about Coca Cola and nameless rich people, which might all be true but has nothing to do with SHaC.
Simon Holmes a Court is actively campaigning for and raising funds for independents in parliament, and got a bunch elected. That's not green washing, or "woke washing" if you prefer. He also campaigns actively on social media, and actively lobbies governments. Not *-washing. He also invests extensively in renewable energy production and R&D. Again, not *-washing.
You've really picked on the wrong guy here, and your unrelated complaints about coke, third world labor and scapegoating the working class really have nothing to do with Holmes a Court and the Teals.
And that's where I think I differ from neo-conservatism. My upbringing was more what you describe above as "old school conservatism" or 'traditionalism' might be another description - rather than neo-conservatism. Which is why I am so at odds with the entire political spectrum. And hence why I never felt at odds with an environmental conscience. Like I infer, not all conservative (or traditionalist) people are wealthy. Large parts of the working class have traditionally been conservative in their moral and cultural values. A very progressive University activist friend once asked me perplexed. How could a person possibly be left of centre economically, but conservative socially. I think he also was getting into the trap of that left-right dichotomy others mentioned above. Putting me in a box, that if I am right of centre socially, I must be economically and environmentally too (or vice versa).
But for me, I was brought up very close to and partially raised by depression era grandparents who had been of rural poor stock. These traditionalist family and community structures are what kept them out of poverty. The sense of duty, responsibility and mutual obligation shared throughout the immediate and extended family and church community kept them fed clothed and a roof over their head. They would view a lot of the progressive social values to be moving towards selfish, narcissistic and decadent hedonism. Which then if we are socially geared to live for hedonistic reasons as our raison d'etre, this is then links to unadulterated consumerism. Probably the biggest contributor to all environmental issues. And hence the way a green conservative view looks at it. If people individually want to contribute to a healthy world. The single most important thing they can do is consume less stuff. Heavy investment in recycling, minimising waste would be another area emphasised by green conservatism. It's not a competing view to left-wing environmentalism. But fair to say it probably has different emphasis.
