A-League threads [Merged]

[Panthera Tigris]

Victory's Club song is "Melbourne the Brave". Very strong Scottish influence when they were formed.

Or is it just fluke of circumstance, when marketing gurus are just picking random tenuous pieces from a fart in the breeze. “Oh we’re wearing state colours of VIC which looks a bit like the Scotland strip, so we’ll sing a song that sounds like it has Scottish connotations, with the club having no obvious links to Scotland.”

All feels a bit contrived. Although at least we haven’t seen the heights of ridiculousness as in MLS in the US. Something like Real Salt Lake has to take tenuous to the extreme. “Real” means Royal in Spanish. So you give a club (sorry, franchise) the prefix, “Real” in one of the least Spanish speaking areas of the US, indicating that your club has Spanish Royal patronage.

 

[Baloo]

Victory had a definite Scottish influence when they were formed.

 

[eZyT]

I only saw the headline.

Can someone explain;

How much of this disruption was political and how much moronic?

I.e how many people invaded and what proportion
Of them were motivated by a need to stand up to the institution soccer australia who had disregarded them with a money driven decision

And what proportion were morons spoiling for a brawl?

My first reaction was

I wish AFL fans would rise up, albeit with well directed non-violence

But im very open to being very wrong

 

[Tenacious]

I only saw the headline.

Can someone explain;

How much of this disruption was political and how much moronic?

Surely doesn’t matter

 

[MD Jazz]

I only saw the headline.

Can someone explain;

How much of this disruption was political and how much moronic?

I.e how many people invaded and what proportion
Of them were motivated by a need to stand up to the institution soccer australia who had disregarded them with a money driven decision

And what proportion were morons spoiling for a brawl?

My first reaction was

I wish AFL fans would rise up, albeit with well directed non-violence

But im very open to being very wrong

Does it matter?

If it's political you use your vote.

So you endorse field invasions and assaults on players?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Bit of dark humour going around the office this morning. Colleague says to me (referring to my perception of the A-League a being a bit plastic and soulless), “Who said the A-League is contrived, plastic and soulless? With the hooligan incident on the weekend, we can boast a ‘proper’ league now.”

Although he did say it was a blight on the security contractors - ”even Millwall fans don’t get on the pitch that easily.”

 

[deedee]

Bit if dark humour going around the office this morning. Colleague says to me (referring to my perception of the A-League a being a bit plastic and soulless), “Who said the A-League is contrived, plastic and soulless? With the hooligan incident on the weekend, we can boast a ‘proper’ league now.”

Although he did say it was a blight on the security contractors - ”even Millwall fans don’t get on the pitch that easily.”

Nah, it's a blight on the supporters more than the security contractors.

 

[eZyT]

Surely doesn’t matter

I think it matters. There us always room for context.
Black and white, whilst has a time and place, is best avoided.

So you endorse field invasions and assaults on players?

With respect Jazzy,

Thats a misguided, polarising, unhelpful, wedge.

I stated my position 1. Uninformed and 2. Non-violent

And i was seeking context.

Im still none-the-wiser

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Nah, it's a blight on the supporters more than the security contractors.

It was said in jest. Like I say, dark humour.

 

[AngryAnt]

Melbourne Victory’s (yet another cringy franchise name thought up by a marketing genius) colours I always thought of as simply being based on Victoria’s state sporting colours, just as Sydney FC’s were based on NSW state sporting colours, given that both Melbourne and Sydney were one team towns in the initial launch of the A-League.

Yes, that's correct. The first marketing guy at Victory, Tony Ising, had some Scottish connections so he also threw in "Scotland the Brave" as the club song. The V chevron is also V for Victoria, and there is also a French club with a similar kit, although that may be coincidence. The idea that Victory is somehow related to Carlton FC in the AFL is total nonsense, but hey, conspiracy theorists gonna conspiracise.. or try to wind me up, who knows.

On the separation of fans at A-League games, only the active supporters are really separated, you can generally buy a seat wherever you like although there are designated labelled areas you can choose to sit in if you want. There is a mix of supporters in other areas at most games, although given most away games are interstate so you don't get a whole lot of travelling fans apart from the actives. So there's another myth busted.

The A-League may not be everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, but try to get a bit educated before you spout off and it is PRE so go off guys

My quibbles with the A-League:

- clubs are a bit plastic but it takes time to build an identity - the original teams now have this, Victory, SFC, Adelaide, Brisbane, Perth (the only NSL club) etc but new franchises are still building. Heart/City now have a strong identity.
- too many player movements to other clubs. Good players often end up playing for 3 or 4 A-League clubs in their careers, which is weird. But given free transfers and salary caps it's hard to stop this.
- the proposed promotion/relegation model - I know why purists want this, but can't see it working practically.
- ultra supporters at all clubs are just massive dickheads. But there active supporters eg South End victory who are fine.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Yes, that's correct. The first marketing guy at Victory, Tony Ising, had some Scottish connections so he also threw in "Scotland the Brave" as the club song. The V chevron is also V for Victoria, and there is also a French club with a similar kit, although that may be coincidence. The idea that Victory is somehow related to Carlton FC in the AFL is total nonsense, but hey, conspiracy theorists gonna conspiracise.. or try to wind me up, who knows.

On the separation of fans at A-League games, only the active supporters are really separated, you can generally buy a seat wherever you like although there are designated labelled areas you can choose to sit in if you want. There is a mix of supporters in other areas at most games, although given most away games are interstate so you don't get a whole lot of travelling fans apart from the actives. So there's another myth busted.

The A-League may not be everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, but try to get a bit educated before you spout off and it is PRE so go off guys

My quibbles with the A-League:

- clubs are a bit plastic but it takes time to build an identity - the original teams now have this, Victory, SFC, Adelaide, Brisbane, Perth (the only NSL club) etc but new franchises are still building. Heart/City now have a strong identity.
- too many player movements to other clubs. Good players often end up playing for 3 or 4 A-League clubs in their careers, which is weird. But given free transfers and salary caps it's hard to stop this.
- the proposed promotion/relegation model - I know why purists want this, but can't see it working practically.
- ultra supporters at all clubs are just massive dickheads. But there active supporters eg South End victory who are fine.

Yeah, I’ve tried multiple times to get into A-League. But just can’t. Like you suggest….probably just not for me. The plastic soullessness element I just struggle with. Just feels like I’m forcing myself to watch, trying to force connection to it. Probably overlayed with the fact that my part of the country isn’t represented (and possibly never will be) that it’s an even bigger struggle.

That said, I have enjoyed watching a couple of my local clubs go on decent FFA Cup runs. Take a bit of interest in the FFA cup, fascinated by the various match ups and communities. Similar to how I enjoy observing the movements within the various tiers of the English and Scottish league systems.

 

[AngryAnt]

Or is it just fluke of circumstance, when marketing gurus are just picking random tenuous pieces from a fart in the breeze. “Oh we’re wearing state colours of VIC which looks a bit like the Scotland strip, so we’ll sing a song that sounds like it has Scottish connotations, with the club having no obvious links to Scotland.”

All feels a bit contrived. Although at least we haven’t seen the heights of ridiculousness as in MLS in the US. Something like Real Salt Lake has to take tenuous to the extreme. “Real” means Royal in Spanish. So you give a club (sorry, franchise) the prefix, “Real” in one of the least Spanish speaking areas of the US, indicating that your club has Spanish Royal patronage.

There's also the strong Scots/Irish heritage in Victoria which may have been a factor, I'll have to ask Tony about that. Coincidence maybe but the founding coach, Ernie Merrick is notoriously Scottish. Grant Brebner, who captained Victory at times in the early years is also a Scot.

All clubs in history start in this way - they are based on the areas where they live and the whims of the people who founded them. Internazionale Milan was an amateur club for non-Italian players. ManU started as the Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway club by railway workers, an owner subsequently changed the name to Man U on a whim. That was plastic at the time too.

I agree calling a team "Real Salt Lake" is pretty *smile* dumb though.

 

[MD Jazz]

I think it matters. There us always room for context.
Black and white, whilst has a time and place, is best avoided.


With respect Jazzy,

Thats a misguided, polarising, unhelpful, wedge.

I stated my position 1. Uninformed and 2. Non-violent

And i was seeking context.

Im still none-the-wiser

I suppose I was curious as to why you only saw a headline yet chose not to inform yourself?

And I think you understate the event by calling it a "disruption"? Not sure that's quite the right word to describe what happened.

I.e how many people invaded and what proportion
Of them were motivated by a need to stand up to the institution soccer australia who had disregarded them with a money driven decision

That reads to me that if they were the second type there may be some justification for their action?

You only have to read here that the GF hosting decision was widely condemned/criticised. And the non-violent protest was to walk out.

I don't like it when a small group of supporters can hold a club and sport to ransom.

 

[Brodders17]

Yes, that's correct. The first marketing guy at Victory, Tony Ising, had some Scottish connections so he also threw in "Scotland the Brave" as the club song. The V chevron is also V for Victoria, and there is also a French club with a similar kit, although that may be coincidence. The idea that Victory is somehow related to Carlton FC in the AFL is total nonsense, but hey, conspiracy theorists gonna conspiracise.. or try to wind me up, who knows.

On the separation of fans at A-League games, only the active supporters are really separated, you can generally buy a seat wherever you like although there are designated labelled areas you can choose to sit in if you want. There is a mix of supporters in other areas at most games, although given most away games are interstate so you don't get a whole lot of travelling fans apart from the actives. So there's another myth busted.

The A-League may not be everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, but try to get a bit educated before you spout off and it is PRE so go off guys

My quibbles with the A-League:

- clubs are a bit plastic but it takes time to build an identity - the original teams now have this, Victory, SFC, Adelaide, Brisbane, Perth (the only NSL club) etc but new franchises are still building. Heart/City now have a strong identity.
- too many player movements to other clubs. Good players often end up playing for 3 or 4 A-League clubs in their careers, which is weird. But given free transfers and salary caps it's hard to stop this.
- the proposed promotion/relegation model - I know why purists want this, but can't see it working practically.
- ultra supporters at all clubs are just massive dickheads. But there active supporters eg South End victory who are fine.

Agree with a lot of that. I've been to plenty of A-League games and never seen any crowd problems. I go because i enjoy watching football, i dont have a particular interest in any team.

 

[Baloo]

The idea that Victory is somehow related to Carlton FC in the AFL is total nonsense, but hey, conspiracy theorists gonna conspiracise.. or try to wind me up, who knows.

Definite, indisputable links to Carlton. But those links are supporter mentality rather than any official link.

 

[eZyT]

I suppose I was curious as to why you only saw a headline yet chose not to inform yourself?

And I think you understate the event by calling it a "disruption"? Not sure that's quite the right word to describe what happened.

I.e how many people invaded and what proportion
Of them were motivated by a need to stand up to the institution soccer australia who had disregarded them with a money driven decision

That reads to me that if they were the second type there may be some justification for their action?

You only have to read here that the GF hosting decision was widely condemned/criticised. And the non-violent protest was to walk out.

I don't like it when a small group of supporters can hold a club and sport to ransom.

Fair enough.

I was looking for context because i think non-violent civil disobedience is, and becoming more, important.

I think a pitch invasion without violence would be a good protest. Protest has to disrupt, and a walkout disrupts nothing, does it? Federation pockets ticket sales and game goes on?

Your last sentance was the justification used to jail violet coco for climate change protest, but its a valid POV.

I know your talking about soccer and im talking society,

Like i said i was seeking context and commentary from a trusted source (pre)

I still havnt really got what i was after,

But i take your point, ill do some research.

 

[MD Jazz]

Fair enough.

I was looking for context because i think non-violent civil disobedience is, and becoming more, important.

I think a pitch invasion without violence would be a good protest. Protest has to disrupt, and a walkout disrupts nothing, does it? Federation pockets ticket sales and game goes on?

Your last sentance was the justification used to jail violet coco for climate change protest, but its a valid POV.

I know your talking about soccer and im talking society,

Like i said i was seeking context and commentary from a trusted source (pre)

I still havnt really got what i was after,

But i take your point, ill do some research.

Cool. I don't necessarily disagree about small groups or individuals having the power to disrupt and make huge change. Rosa Parks springs to mind.

But I'm unsure if its the correct vehicle to protest a governing body decision like that made by the FFA, that may in fact be in the best interests of the game (finanicial health?) given all the facts they had available to them? I think trust in governing bodies of all persuasions (governments/sporting bodies) has slowly been eroded given that power, money and corruption go together.

No easy answer, and perhaps I can be convinced a pitch invasion is approriate at some point?

 

[Panthera Tigris]

There's also the strong Scots/Irish heritage in Victoria which may have been a factor, I'll have to ask Tony about that. Coincidence maybe but the founding coach, Ernie Merrick is notoriously Scottish. Grant Brebner, who captained Victory at times in the early years is also a Scot.

All clubs in history start in this way - they are based on the areas where they live and the whims of the people who founded them. Internazionale Milan was an amateur club for non-Italian players. ManU started as the Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway club by railway workers, an owner subsequently changed the name to Man U on a whim. That was plastic at the time too.

I agree calling a team "Real Salt Lake" is pretty *smile* dumb though.

I look at a team like Western United too. Pretty bloody dumb one.

The difference is today, with sport being corporatised, marketing people try and contrive some sanitised, all inclusive identity. Trying to be everything to everyone, to the point that they then create such vague nothingness that struggles to build identity. As in, I’m sure they’ll be “dancing in the streets of Western after this week’s win.” Where? Western Australia? Anywhere west of Melbourne on the Australian continent? Western side of Sunshine North? They overthink it.

Just because the Geelong Cats are called Geelong, doesn’t mean the whole of the Ocean Road feels alienated by them. They embrace the identity created by the locality of Geelong. Same goes for the Newcastle Knights Rugby League side. Very well followed throughout the entire Hunter Valley region, where the local rugby league comps feed the Knight’s ranks.

Christ, in the UK you have teams with simple names like Daggenham & Redbridge FC, or Brighton & Hove Albion as examples. The team is jointly from Brighton & Hove, we’ll call it what it is. In Germany you have Bayern Munich (translates to simply Munich Bavaria FC - would be like naming a Melbourne side, Simply Melbourne Victoria FC - instead of the cringy “Victory” - or a Brisbane side, Brisbane Queensland FC - Brisbane Roar is like finger nails down a blackboard every time I hear it).

On that note, do you call a team covering Western United’s area simply Wyndham & Geelong FC. Borrowing from the historical theme of carrying the latin Albion in the name of Brighton & Hove, you could even go something like Wyndham & Geelong Bunurong FC (Bunurong is the name of the traditional owners of the land of their proposed stadium). And like Brighton & Hove Albion, people all across that region of England follow them. Those outside specifically Brighton or Hove don’t feel alienated by the name, as long as the club embraces their overall catchment. All hypothetical of course.

In the past, there wasn’t a lot of overthinking of how teams and branding came about. Which is the path the franchised model kind of takes. They just kind of happened organically. And tribalism seems to latch onto those quirks.

Talking of quirks, have always loved Sheffield Wednesday’s name. My understanding is they were basically a rep team selected from Sheffield Wednesday lunch or afternoon competition. Hence how they got their name. How good is that!

 

[AngryAnt]

Definite, indisputable links to Carlton. But those links are supporter mentality rather than any official link.

Bit weird, supported Victory for over a decade now and even spent time in the active supporter sections, never once did I hear any mention of the Old Dark Navy Blues. But yeah, "definite and indisputable links" that are also extremely vague and hand-wavey "supporter mentality rather than any official link".

Provide examples.

 

[AngryAnt]

I look at a team like Western United too. Pretty bloody dumb one.

Reminds me of the name of an AFL team that lives in the western part of sydney, but has a name is far, far worse than Western United.

Your B&HAFC or D&RFC examples don't really work, because they were formed from mergers of pre-existing clubs with real history. Wyndham and Geelong FC would be just as fake and plastic as Real Salt Lake given there was no merger between Wyndham FC and Geelong FC.

Of course teams in England with the name "United" were also mostly formed from mergers of other real clubs, so Western United is stupid in that regard as well.

In the past, there wasn’t a lot of overthinking of how teams and branding came about. Which is the path the franchised model kind of takes. They just kind of happened organically. And tribalism seems to latch onto those quirks.

Talking of quirks, have always loved Sheffield Wednesday’s name. My understanding is they were basically a rep team selected from Sheffield Wednesday lunch or afternoon competition. Hence how they got their name. How good is that!

Yeah, that's all true.