Midfield Depth

[Smoking Aces]

Can't all clubs elevate a rookie after mid year?

You could be right willo. I do remember reading something along those lines.

If Verrier was to be elevated off the rookie list it will be this week.

Its pretty much out of him and Webberley as the only remaining midfielder fit enough to replace White.

 

[Disco08]

The cupboard is bare.

Big hole on the list that needs filling come end of year.

Kerr / Pendlebury / Cotchin
Priddis / Swan / Martin
Selwood / Ball / Tuck
Rosa / Thomas / Deledio
Masten / Beams / Foley
Gaff / Sidebottom / Grigg
McGinnity / Wellingham / Conca
Shuey / Blair / Ellis
Embley / Didak / Nahas
Selwood / Johnson / Newman
Swift / Sinclair / Edwards
Stevens / Josh Thomas / Jackson
Dalziell / Rounds / White
Stevenson / Seedsman / Arnot
Newman / Mooney / Helbig
Neates / Williams / Maric
Mascoulis / ? / Webberley

Reckon we stack up OK.

 

[Scoop]

Nahas, Newman and Edwards in the mids. Don't think so.

But you didn't include Hams, Waters or LeCras.

And on a lot of lines, we come third.

The cupboard is bare.

 

[Leysy Days]

Think the Collingwood comparison actually shows that we still need to bolster that part of our list.

There's not a lot of hope coming through under Ellis. A couple of possibles but thats about it.

Collingwood would have Fasolo & Elliott (dont underestimate there ability) rank right alongside Ellis & Conca as potential midfielders of the future, but they would have maybe 10 players ahead of them in the Pies list versus maybe 7 at ours.

Still some work to do yet.

 

[linuscambridge]

Think the Collingwood comparison actually shows that we still need to bolster that part of our list.

There's not a lot of hope coming through under Ellis. A couple of possibles but thats about it.

Collingwood would have Fasolo & Elliott (dont underestimate there ability) rank right alongside Ellis & Conca as potential midfielders of the future, but they would have maybe 10 players ahead of them in the Pies list versus maybe 7 at ours.

Still some work to do yet.

Yes, no surprise there with Fasolo, but how good does Elliot look!? That's the power of a good recruiting team spotting talent like that.

Mind you, if Buckley was at the Tigers he would have a hundred page thread by now.

 

[Disco08]

Nahas, Newman and Edwards in the mids. Don't think so.

But you didn't include Hams, Waters or LeCras.

And on a lot of lines, we come third.

The cupboard is bare.

Nahas is a midfielder in the same sense that Didak and Embley are. Similarly Johnson plays back and a little midfield the way Newman has been this year. Edwards is clearly playing mostly hff/midfield this year.

Le Cras is a small forward pure and simple. Doesn't attend many stoppages at all. Waters is no more a midfielder than Batchelor or Houli. Hams also looks to spend most of his time playing forward. Not sure any 26 year old getting 10 touches a game can be considered a midfielder.

How many of the first 8 lines do you think we come last in? I'd say that's most crucial. No doubt we may be last a bit after that but it doesn't take much turnover this year to change the look of that list quite dramatically. You also have to remember that 3 years ago Jackson would have been much nearer the top of that list. Our depth can be clearly seen by how much less we rely on him now.

I don't see how you could possibly say the cupboard is bare.

Think the Collingwood comparison actually shows that we still need to bolster that part of our list.

There's not a lot of hope coming through under Ellis. A couple of possibles but thats about it.

Collingwood would have Fasolo & Elliott (dont underestimate there ability) rank right alongside Ellis & Conca as potential midfielders of the future, but they would have maybe 10 players ahead of them in the Pies list versus maybe 7 at ours.

Still some work to do yet.

Collingwood are clearly ahead of us in their development though. They've got a really solid top 10 and lots of youngsters. Our list we start to look more like that with a few changes this year I reckon.

True about Fasolo but you could say the same about O'Hanlon too. Missed Elliott though, thanks.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Nahas is a midfielder in the same sense that Didak and Embley are.

How many of the first 8 lines do you think we come last in? I'd say that's most crucial.

ComParing nahas & embley's roles is crazy.

We are last in 5 of the top 8 IMO

Cupboard is bare

 

[AstuteTiger]

We have a damn talented midfield that we know that most opposition supporters know but we need to add to this talent in this coming draft.....Arnott i think will make it more than not from what ive seen yes still early but u can say that about many other youngsters in the league....after Arnott kinda scratching my head but another 3 or 4 mids in this coming draft and also perhaps free agency + trade(s) and we set our selves up nicely....looking more than likely we'll have 3 pics within the first 35 and 2 of those have to be on mids.....then pick up another 2 later on in the draft like we did with arnott in 2011

 

[tigs2010]

Ellis and Conca should play as centre square mids for longer periods this week. Foley's injury and Dusty's suspension could be a blessing whereby we find 2 really good players. If they can really establish themselves then we can afford to try Helbig out as a flanker later in the year.

 

[Disco08]

ComParing nahas & embley's roles is crazy.

We are last in 5 of the top 8 IMO

Cupboard is bare

Maybe. He's only played 2 games for the year though so it's somewhat of a moot point. They both spend more time forward than in the midfield though.

Amazing that with a bare cupboard we managed to do so well against both the teams in point isn't it? It'll be interesting to see how far the empty cupboard can take us next year. With such a hole in the most vital part of the list you'd have to say we'll get flogged a lot and be no chance of playing finals eh?

Which of our top 8 would you swap with the other teams if you had the chance?

 

[Scoop]

Which of our top 8 would you swap with the other teams if you had the chance?

Tuck for Selwood.
Beams for Foley
Sidebottom for Grigg.
Shuey for Ellis.

So half.

The cupboard is bare.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Tuck for Selwood.
Beams for Foley
Sidebottom for Grigg.
Shuey for Ellis.

So half.

The cupboard is bare.

The cupboard isn't bare, it's just not as full as the teams with the best midfield in the AFL.

 

[Disco08]

Calling any cupboard that has Cotchin, Deledio and Martin in it bare is blatantly absurd.

Tuck for Selwood.
Beams for Foley
Sidebottom for Grigg.
Shuey for Ellis.

So half.

The cupboard is bare.

So even with the chance to trade at will with arguably the two best midfields in the league you'd only trade half the time? And to you that indicates an empty cupbard. Bizarre.

 

[Leysy Days]

Think the cupboard is bare line is more towards the title of the thread which is what we are discussing, well at least leysy did.

Everyone knows we have some elite young talent at the top end.

 

[Leysy Days]

Collingwood are clearly ahead of us in their development though. They've got a really solid top 10 and lots of youngsters. Our list we start to look more like that with a few changes this year I reckon.
True about Fasolo but you could say the same about O'Hanlon too. Missed Elliott though, thanks.

The highlighted is exactly right.

If we can focus our early picks on getting some talented mids in that can also work through other positions we will be getting towards the right numbers in this area. Available talent pending of course.

On Fasolo, leysy is a bit biased as he's a longtime fan but he'd be above O'Hanlon as a potential midfielder. Not sure O'Hanlon will end up in there anyway.

On Collingwood, yes they have a good top 10 & talent coming through. But surely thats where we have to get to if we want to challenge. Midfield talent & depth is the biggest ingredient to premiership success ILO.

 

[Leysy Days]

Yes, no surprise there with Fasolo, but how good does Elliot look!? That's the power of a good recruiting team spotting talent like that.

No doubt. Whilst money is no issue for them, they definately focus in the right area's i.e. recruiting & development.

Though they gave up more to get Elliott than Fasolo (though the latter should never have got to where he did).

 

[Scoop]

Calling any cupboard that has Cotchin, Deledio and Martin in it bare is blatantly absurd.
So even with the chance to trade at will with arguably the two best midfields in the league you'd only trade half the time? And to you that indicates an empty cupbard. Bizarre.

No point having three when you need 8.

Doesn't matter how good your three is, you won't win.

Agree with Leysy's line over the last three posts. We need more.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

Maybe. He's only played 2 games for the year though so it's somewhat of a moot point. They both spend more time forward than in the midfield though.

Amazing that with a bare cupboard we managed to do so well against both the teams in point isn't it? It'll be interesting to see how far the empty cupboard can take us next year. With such a hole in the most vital part of the list you'd have to say we'll get flogged a lot and be no chance of playing finals eh?

Which of our top 8 would you swap with the other teams if you had the chance?

Embley has been a midfielder/winger for 90% of his career, Nahas a FP for 90%. FWIW it seems to me Nahas spent more time in the midfield last year than this year and did some good work there providing plenty of run. Not quite sure why.

On reflection, you are right, cupboard is bare is bit of an exaggeration. We have potentially an elite midfield, our first tier of Cotchin/Martin/Deledio/Foley is a fantastic quartet.

The questions for me as to how good our midfield can become would include -

Can Martin build an elite tank?
Can Foley get on the park for 20 games a year?
Can Conca/Ellis become a Sidebottom/Beams type combination for us?
Can Grigg become a little better with his ball use?
Can Tuck perform at this level for another year?
Can Helbig & Arnott become AFL midfielders?
Can we get it right (again) this draft and snag another 1 or 2 quality mids in this draft?

Can mount a case to say yes to all of those, if that were to happen over the next 2 seasons we would probably be the best midfield in the competition. At that point though we would probably need to be looking at replacing Foley & Tuck.

You could also argue if Vickery had been at least as effective as he was last season we may have won another 3-4 games this year and be vying for a Top 4 spot.

On another point, is it the failure of our forward line to capitalise on our I50's differential or is it a failure of our delivery/style of play?

 

[Disco08]

It's been goalkicking much of the time this year. We've missed a ridiculous amount of easy goals. That's how you lose games you dominate most times.

No point having three when you need 8.

Doesn't matter how good your three is, you won't win.

Agree with Leysy's line over the last three posts. We need more.

Of course we need more. No one's arguing that the cupboard is splitting at the seams.

We have 8 good midfielders. They've been listed numerous times.

Think the cupboard is bare line is more towards the title of the thread which is what we are discussing, well at least leysy did.

Everyone knows we have some elite young talent at the top end.

Depth starts with your best player and ends at your worst. It's all inclusive. There's no point having good players at slots 10-14 if your top 5 are only mediocre.

The fact that 4 of our top 8 aren't even fully matured means we've had to keep the likes of White and Webberley as depth. Now that Cotchin and Martin are hitting their primes we can start turning those types over more confidently. I think it's obvious that's the way they've gone about rebuilding the midfield anyway, and they're at the point where one more good draft can see that part of the list in pretty settled shape.

The highlighted is exactly right.

If we can focus our early picks on getting some talented mids in that can also work through other positions we will be getting towards the right numbers in this area. Available talent pending of course.

On Fasolo, leysy is a bit biased as he's a longtime fan but he'd be above O'Hanlon as a potential midfielder. Not sure O'Hanlon will end up in there anyway.

On Collingwood, yes they have a good top 10 & talent coming through. But surely thats where we have to get to if we want to challenge. Midfield talent & depth is the biggest ingredient to premiership success ILO.

Looking at our list like this is why I changed my mind on Boak. You can see the flow on effect he'd have.

Fasolo is defintely ahead of O'Hanlon, but he's older too. O'Hanlon looks to have the attributes needed to make the move though if they want him to down the track.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

How do people feel about Brent Moloney as a 4-6th midfielder?