TV shows

[Tigers of Old]

Alone on SBS is good. I’ve watched all the American series during our various lockdowns. I think the Australian environment (in Tassie) might be a bit too hard as there seems very little for the contestants to catch, kill and eat.

Yeah it's good. Bloody hell that is a brutal landscape. No wonder nobody lives there.

Shows I'm currently watching are

The Night Agent of Netflix.
Okish so far but feels lightweight. The plot is ordinary & some of the actors really wooden.
I find it a bit of a slog but decent escapism if you don't think too much.

The Head on SBS series 2.
Series one was far superior. I loved it so thought I'd try the 2nd series.
I want to like it but not sure I'll make it through.

 

[larabee]

Late to the party but just finished watching The Last Of Us. Great TV. One of the few that lives up to its hype imo.

Enjoying Rogue Heroes, about the founding of the British SAS regiment in WW2, on SBS,
and Fancy Hank with Bob Odenkirk is pretty good so far

 

[bigwow]

Enjoying 'Will Trent' on Disney+

Read a shirt story based on the character so thought I'd give it a look.

Will Trent (TV Series 2023– ) - IMDb

Will Trent: Created by Liz Heldens, Daniel T. Thomsen. With Ramón Rodríguez, Erika Christensen, Iantha Richardson, Jake McLaughlin. Special Agent Will Trent was abandoned at birth and endured a harsh coming-of-age in Atlanta's overwhelmed foster care system. Determined to make sure no one feels...

www.imdb.com

 

[Billy24]

Late to the party but just finished watching The Last Of Us. Great TV. One of the few that lives up to its hype imo.

Enjoying Rogue Heroes, about the founding of the British SAS regiment in WW2, on SBS,
and Fancy Hank with Bob Odenkirk is pretty good so far

Agree, just finished watching first series of Lucky Hank. Enjoyed it.

 

[larabee]

Agree, just finished watching first series of Lucky Hank. Enjoyed it.

Ha! Lucky Hank it is.
I must have been hungry and thinking of Fancy Hanks BBQ!

 

[shad]

I'm in the process of catching up on 20 years of not really watching any tv. I've been working my way through the HBO catalogue. Just finished Mare of Easttown. Absolutely incredible show. Apart from the gripping story and quality acting it was also a great exploration about the impact of trauma on both individuals and a community.

 

[spook]

I'm in the process of catching up on 20 years of not really watching any tv. I've been working my way through the HBO catalogue. Just finished Mare of Easttown. Absolutely incredible show. Apart from the gripping story and quality acting it was also a great exploration about the impact of trauma on both individuals and a community.

You should try Rectify. Ten times as good.

 

[Redford]

Just finished watching a 10 part series The Rise of the Nazi Party on the History Channel. 2013. It’s actually the rise, dominance and fall, but anyway.

I wanted to see if it contained any better insight into how/why an entire nation could find itself so derailed, so deformed by the Nazis and seemingly have, a complicit attitude towards what they knew they were doing right from the pre WW2 days through to the end of WW2. It’s always puzzled me.

In essence, whilst it was pretty interesting, it didn’t highlight anything about the establishment period of the Nazi Party that I didn’t already know ie how Hitler developed a hatred for the Jews, the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, domestic political dysfunction, expert propaganda, taking advantage of a vulnerable people etc.

Otherwise, it didn’t explain how, even in the early days of the Nazi Party, how a people could accept such abject and base violence and racism on an open and well orchestrated front without saying “this just isn’t right…we have to stop this”. The Nazis established themselves out of pure violence and thuggery way back in the DAP days in 1919 so everybody knew their modus operandi from a long way out. But they festered and grew through the years unabated.

Despite understanding some of the influences for this, I was still left with questions about the general German psyche unfortunately - both during the uprising and also once the Nazis lead them into WW2 and the knowledge by most Germans by 1943 of the inevitable disaster they were facing and also the systematic genocide that they were committing. Some small pockets of resistance sprouted up…but not many.

One thing I probably didn’t appreciate though was just the unbelievable level of evil genius of Goebells. As some historians noted in the series, perhaps the real architect of the Nazi uprising and the control that they were able to sustain over Germany despite the overwhelming evidence to suggest that they were nothing more than defective, incompetent, lying, criminal barbarians leading Germany and the world towards destruction.

One part of the series was was quite disturbing. The Final Solution episode. Real life footage and photos that could have at least come with a warning.

Anyway, pretty interesting from a historical, key people and events perspective, if not exactly what I was looking for some answers on.

The best I can come up with is that Germany never really was a free thinking democratic state before the Nazis gained power, and that for all intents and purposes, it was used to being dictated to and suppressed, and that this was just another semi totalitarian government for the people to digest albeit on a more criminal and brutal basis than ever before. Not that that’s an acceptable explanation to draw given the immense and unfathomable scale of atrocities, death and misery that was perpetrated on the world, especially by a relatively intellectually developed nation of people.

Therefore my questions still remain largely unanswered about that period of German history.

Scary stuff really, what humans can become and do.

 

[shad]

You should try Rectify. Ten times as good.

I loved rectify too.

 

[tigersnake]

Just finished watching a 10 part series The Rise of the Nazi Party on the History Channel. 2013. It’s actually the rise, dominance and fall, but anyway.

I wanted to see if it contained any better insight into how/why an entire nation could find itself so derailed, so deformed by the Nazis and seemingly have, a complicit attitude towards what they knew they were doing right from the pre WW2 days through to the end of WW2. It’s always puzzled me.

In essence, whilst it was pretty interesting, it didn’t highlight anything about the establishment period of the Nazi Party that I didn’t already know ie how Hitler developed a hatred for the Jews, the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, domestic political dysfunction, expert propaganda, taking advantage of a vulnerable people etc.

Otherwise, it didn’t explain how, even in the early days of the Nazi Party, how a people could accept such abject and base violence and racism on an open and well orchestrated front without saying “this just isn’t right…we have to stop this”. The Nazis established themselves out of pure violence and thuggery way back in the DAP days in 1919 so everybody knew their modus operandi from a long way out. But they festered and grew through the years unabated.

Despite understanding some of the influences for this, I was still left with questions about the general German psyche unfortunately - both during the uprising and also once the Nazis lead them into WW2 and the knowledge by most Germans by 1943 of the inevitable disaster they were facing and also the systematic genocide that they were committing. Some small pockets of resistance sprouted up…but not many.

One thing I probably didn’t appreciate though was just the unbelievable level of evil genius of Goebells. As some historians noted in the series, perhaps the real architect of the Nazi uprising and the control that they were able to sustain over Germany despite the overwhelming evidence to suggest that they were nothing more than defective, incompetent, lying, criminal barbarians leading Germany and the world towards destruction.

One part of the series was was quite disturbing. The Final Solution episode. Real life footage and photos that could have at least come with a warning.

Anyway, pretty interesting from a historical, key people and events perspective, if not exactly what I was looking for some answers on.

The best I can come up with is that Germany never really was a free thinking democratic state before the Nazis gained power, and that for all intents and purposes, it was used to being dictated to and suppressed, and that this was just another semi totalitarian government for the people to digest albeit on a more criminal and brutal basis than ever before. Not that that’s an acceptable explanation to draw given the immense and unfathomable scale of atrocities, death and misery that was perpetrated on the world, especially by a relatively intellectually developed nation of people.

Therefore my questions still remain largely unanswered about that period of German history.

Scary stuff really, what humans can become and do.

The documentary America and the Holocaust by Ken Burns is very good. Came out recently. saw it on SBS.

A lot of Germans were against the Nazis, likewise a lot of Americans supported the Nazis. Hitler looked to the US for a lot of his policies and strategies, in particular he basically copied the Jim Crow statutes of Southern America to legally discriminate against Jews.

Watched an old doco, 2012, on Uni Of Mississippi in the early 1960s focussing on the Football team and the enrollment of a black student. Chilling, incredible. Same attitudes as Nazi Germany.

 

[Redford]

The documentary America and the Holocaust by Ken Burns is very good. Came out recently. saw it on SBS.

A lot of Germans were against the Nazis, likewise a lot of Americans supported the Nazis. Hitler looked to the US for a lot of his policies and strategies, in particular he basically copied the Jim Crow statutes of Southern America to legally discriminate against Jews.

Watched an old doco, 2012, on Uni Of Mississippi in the early 1960s focussing on the Football team and the enrollment of a black student. Chilling, incredible. Same attitudes as Nazi Germany.

Yeah but the difference being that we’re talking about Southern America only - which was moving away from discriminatory Jim Crow policy anyway - and a University as a small example of discriminatory activity whereas what I’m talking about here is an entire nation of 80 million people adopting outright genocide. Scale, severity etc vastly …vastly different. Staggering actually.

 

[tigersnake]

Yeah but the difference being that we’re talking about Southern America only - which was moving away from discriminatory Jim Crow policy anyway - and a University as a small example of discriminatory activity whereas what I’m talking about here is an entire nation of 80 million people adopting outright genocide. Scale, severity etc vastly …vastly different.

Sure its different, but you're letting them off the hook. Southern America bigger than germany, similar pop. American States have a lot of autonomy. They weren't moving away, they had to be dragged away kicking and screaming. The Uni was just the focus, and it was a relatively enlightened institute.

The entire nation of Germany didn't adopt genocide. A lot supported it for sure, and like you I'm fascinated by how that happens, a lot didn't but went along with it because they felt they had to, a lot did what they could to resist it.

The South may not have embarked on a holocaust, they couldn't due to fed laws and they didn't need to because the black pop was already poor and subjugated. But they did lynchings and house and church burnings though without consequence and supported by a lot of the white population, probably a majority. It was a reign of terror.

Same mentality, same racial hatred, same strategies, I'd love to see research or figures but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers for and against were similar.

 

[Redford]

Sure its different, but you're letting them off the hook. Southern America bigger than germany, similar pop. American States have a lot of autonomy. They weren't moving away, they had to be dragged away kicking and screaming. The Uni was just the focus, and it was a relatively enlightened institute.

The entire nation of Germany didn't adopt genocide. A lot supported it for sure, and like you I'm fascinated by how that happens, a lot didn't but went along with it because they felt they had to, a lot did what they could to resist it.

The South may not have embarked on a holocaust, they couldn't due to fed laws and they didn't need to because the black pop was already poor and subjugated. But they did lynchings and house and church burnings though without consequence and supported by a lot of the white population, probably a majority. It was a reign of terror.

Same mentality, same racial hatred, same strategies, I'd love to see research or figures but it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers for and against were similar.

It was show about the Nazi Party - not Americans.

But anyway, I find it very hard to accept that 1939 USA, Great Britain, or any other reasonably developed and democratic country like Germany was at the time, would fall victim to the mass genocide of over 6.5 million people including disabled and mentally ill children and create a world war like no other. A less developed dictatorial state like Russia under Stalin yes, but Germany ? Staggering.

USA problems ? Yes. Definitely. But in comparing the southern states to Nazi Germany from 1924 to 1945 is comparing apples with oranges in my opinion. Scale, severity...everything.

The Brown Shirts were bashing and murdering people in the 1920's. Germans sat by and did next to nothing and what developed was catastrophic. At least in America, they had the capacity and will within to supress southern state activity and not let it grow and get out of hand like in Germany. Apples and oranges.

 

[MD Jazz]

Yeh, it's like comparing the human rights records of China/Saudi Arabia to Australia.

 

[Ian4]

Just finished watching a 10 part series The Rise of the Nazi Party on the History Channel. 2013. It’s actually the rise, dominance and fall, but anyway.

I wanted to see if it contained any better insight into how/why an entire nation could find itself so derailed, so deformed by the Nazis and seemingly have, a complicit attitude towards what they knew they were doing right from the pre WW2 days through to the end of WW2. It’s always puzzled me.

In essence, whilst it was pretty interesting, it didn’t highlight anything about the establishment period of the Nazi Party that I didn’t already know ie how Hitler developed a hatred for the Jews, the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, domestic political dysfunction, expert propaganda, taking advantage of a vulnerable people etc.

Otherwise, it didn’t explain how, even in the early days of the Nazi Party, how a people could accept such abject and base violence and racism on an open and well orchestrated front without saying “this just isn’t right…we have to stop this”. The Nazis established themselves out of pure violence and thuggery way back in the DAP days in 1919 so everybody knew their modus operandi from a long way out. But they festered and grew through the years unabated.

Despite understanding some of the influences for this, I was still left with questions about the general German psyche unfortunately - both during the uprising and also once the Nazis lead them into WW2 and the knowledge by most Germans by 1943 of the inevitable disaster they were facing and also the systematic genocide that they were committing. Some small pockets of resistance sprouted up…but not many.

One thing I probably didn’t appreciate though was just the unbelievable level of evil genius of Goebells. As some historians noted in the series, perhaps the real architect of the Nazi uprising and the control that they were able to sustain over Germany despite the overwhelming evidence to suggest that they were nothing more than defective, incompetent, lying, criminal barbarians leading Germany and the world towards destruction.

One part of the series was was quite disturbing. The Final Solution episode. Real life footage and photos that could have at least come with a warning.

Anyway, pretty interesting from a historical, key people and events perspective, if not exactly what I was looking for some answers on.

The best I can come up with is that Germany never really was a free thinking democratic state before the Nazis gained power, and that for all intents and purposes, it was used to being dictated to and suppressed, and that this was just another semi totalitarian government for the people to digest albeit on a more criminal and brutal basis than ever before. Not that that’s an acceptable explanation to draw given the immense and unfathomable scale of atrocities, death and misery that was perpetrated on the world, especially by a relatively intellectually developed nation of people.

Therefore my questions still remain largely unanswered about that period of German history.

Scary stuff really, what humans can become and do.

They did change their MO somewhat after Hitler got out of jail. The thuggery and violence was not as vicious as it was prior. Hitler was never gonna get into power by force, so tried to play politics and reestablish himself. The Nazi’s did well for a while, but were actually a dying force by the late 1920’s. That all changed after the depression. People looked to extremists during that time… the communists on the left and the Nazi’s on the right. The Nazi’s won.

Hitler did something similar after he got to power in terms of trying to establish himself. “Give me 4 years to fix Germany.” He didn’t start persecuting the Jews immediately. He was more interested in ridding the enemies within his own party and re-arming Germany.

The crazy thing for me is that Hitler never hid the fact that he wanted to rule a totalitarian regime. Never hid the fact that he wanted to end democracy in Germany and used the depression to argue why democracy didn’t work. And even after the got into power and brought in the enabling act, 90% of the Saar region still voted to re-join Germany. They knew they were voting in favour of giving up the right to vote, but did so anyway.

As for the psyche… I think you explained it yourself by describing the evil genius of Goebbels. They fell for the propaganda hook, line and sinker. And when Germany started losing the war in around 1943, this information was never shared with Germans. They just doubled down on their “total war” rhetoric. Got more vicious with their enemies on the outside and the inside.

And i think there definitely was an element of being dictated to and suppressed. Remember they only really became a nation in the late 19th century and were ruled by Kaiser up until WWI. Then they were angry at the capitulation of WWI, the harsh reparations against them and were hunting for scapegoats. Then Weimar Republic took over and pretty much submitted to the French. Add the depression and the country was a tinderbox.

 

[Redford]

They did change their MO somewhat after Hitler got out of jail. The thuggery and violence was not as vicious as it was prior. Hitler was never gonna get into power by force, so tried to play politics and reestablish himself. The Nazi’s did well for a while, but were actually a dying force by the late 1920’s. That all changed after the depression. People looked to extremists during that time… the communists on the left and the Nazi’s on the right. The Nazi’s won.

Hitler did something similar after he got to power in terms of trying to establish himself. “Give me 4 years to fix Germany.” He didn’t start persecuting the Jews immediately. He was more interested in ridding the enemies within his own party and re-arming Germany.

The crazy thing for me is that Hitler never hid the fact that he wanted to rule a totalitarian regime. Never hid the fact that he wanted to end democracy in Germany and used the depression to argue why democracy didn’t work. And even after the got into power and brought in the enabling act, 90% of the Saar region still voted to re-join Germany. They knew they were voting in favour of giving up the right to vote, but did so anyway.

As for the psyche… I think you explained it yourself by describing the evil genius of Goebbels. They fell for the propaganda hook, line and sinker. And when Germany started losing the war in around 1943, this information was never shared with Germans. They just doubled down on their “total war” rhetoric. Got more vicious with their enemies on the outside and the inside.

And i think there definitely was an element of being dictated to and suppressed. Remember they only really became a nation in the late 19th century and were ruled by Kaiser up until WWI. Then they were angry at the capitulation of WWI, the harsh reparations against them and were hunting for scapegoats. Then Weimar Republic took over and pretty much submitted to the French. Add the depression and the country was a tinderbox.

That’s all correct Ian except for the second paragraph. He started applying persecutory laws such as Jews not being allowed to run certain businesses and other workplace laws, stripping them of their citizenship, marriage restrictions etc.

Refer the Nuremberg Laws of 1935.

 

[tigersnake]

It was show about the Nazi Party - not Americans.

But anyway, I find it very hard to accept that 1939 USA, Great Britain, or any other reasonably developed and democratic country like Germany was at the time, would fall victim to the mass genocide of over 6.5 million people including disabled and mentally ill children and create a world war like no other. A less developed dictatorial state like Russia under Stalin yes, but Germany ? Staggering.

USA problems ? Yes. Definitely. But in comparing the southern states to Nazi Germany from 1924 to 1945 is comparing apples with oranges in my opinion. Scale, severity...everything.

The Brown Shirts were bashing and murdering people in the 1920's. Germans sat by and did next to nothing and what developed was catastrophic. At least in America, they had the capacity and will within to supress southern state activity and not let it grow and get out of hand like in Germany. Apples and oranges.

so we can't compare any situation to any other situation? OK then

Every situation is different, but we can look at similarities.

It is staggering. But I disagree with any suggesting that the attitudes, culture and politics that resulted in the WW2 and the Holocaust were all unique to Germany. Fascism was big in the UK and the US, not as big, but still big. Its a myth that all germans supported the Nazis, and its also a myth that all English and Americans were against the Nazis. Us good, them evil. White people, the KKK were bashing and murdering people for hundreds of years until the mid 1960s and people sat by and did next to nothing until attitudes in the North reached a tipping point, 20 years after WW2.

Apples and Oranges maybe, but the fact remains, Hitler and Goring copied Southern US legislation to institute discimination against a race of people.

Why did it tip over into catastrophe in Germany and not elsewhere? To begin to answer that question, you have to make comparisons. Does Germany just have a higher proportion of evil people? A lower proportion of compassionate people? Is it down to the uniqueness of Hitler and his obsessiveness and effectiveness as a leader?

 

[eZyT]

it didn’t explain how, even in the early days of the Nazi Party, how a people could accept such abject and base violence and racism on an open and well orchestrated front without saying “this just isn’t right…we have to stop this”.

About a quarter of Australians in 2023 thinks voting No to indigenous constitutional recognition and representation

Is right.

Apologies in advance for any extrapolation beyond that particular TV script.

 

[eZyT]

so we can't compare any situation to any other situation? OK then

Every situation is different, but we can look at similarities.

It is staggering. But I disagree with any suggesting that the attitudes, culture and politics that resulted in the WW2 and the Holocaust were all unique to Germany. Fascism was big in the UK and the US, not as big, but still big. Its a myth that all germans supported the Nazis, and its also a myth that all English and Americans were against the Nazis. Us good, them evil. White people, the KKK were bashing and murdering people for hundreds of years until the mid 1960s and people sat by and did next to nothing until attitudes in the North reached a tipping point, 20 years after WW2.

Apples and Oranges maybe, but the fact remains, Hitler and Goring copied Southern US legislation to institute discimination against a race of people.

Why did it tip over into catastrophe in Germany and not elsewhere? To begin to answer that question, you have to make comparisons. Does Germany just have a higher proportion of evil people? A lower proportion of compassionate people? Is it down to the uniqueness of Hitler and his obsessiveness and effectiveness as a leader?

100% the Nazis held up the American eugenics movement as a how to.

Post war, nazis introduced the American eugenics manual as evidence in their defence

The American Breeders Assc. were sterilising the 'feeble minded' when hitler was a swastika in his fathers eye.

Its a shame the ABA were a bit off the mark in workshopping 'feeble'. They could have really headed off Making America Great Again

 

[Ian4]

That’s all correct Ian except for the second paragraph. He started applying persecutory laws such as Jews not being allowed to run certain businesses and other workplace laws, stripping them of their citizenship, marriage restrictions etc.

Refer the Nuremberg Laws of 1935.

OK, but that was more than 2 and a half years after Hitler got to power. Between January 1933 and September 1935, they had the infamous "night of the long knives," and a secret rearmament policy, which was made public before the Nuremberg laws. Pograms such as kristallnacht happened a little later.