Welcome to Tiger land Riley Collier’Dawkins

[Brodders17]

The bottom line will always be that he won three flags with a list that on paper was probably not even top 4 in the league.

Sorry Streak, but I gotta disagree with that statement. Hardwick is a great coach, but the proof of our talent across the field is in our 3 premierships and our dominant 2018.

 

[Streak]

Sorry Streak, but I gotta disagree with that statement. Hardwick is a great coach, but the proof of our talent across the field is in our 3 premierships and our dominant 2018.

2018 we were dominant for sure. Our game plan had matured to be at its most potent.

We had talent, and we had a superb top 5 players on our list, and our role players were exceptionally good at their jobs, but I think this team significantly over achieved.

And I love them for it.

 

[The Big Richo]

But I don't see it as a weakness, I think it might even be a strength.

Yeah, me too. Apart from costing us the best forward in the history of the game in McBean of course.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

Sorry Streak, but I gotta disagree with that statement. Hardwick is a great coach, but the proof of our talent across the field is in our 3 premierships and our dominant 2018.

Ridiculous comment.
It's soooo hard to win a flag let alone 3 in 4 yrs, just ask Stkilda & Footscary and our form in the back end of 2017 was outstanding.
Then it continued for a further 3 years is no fluke.
Brilliant coach, outstanding team.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Our players might get criminally underrated by the anti Richmond brigade in the media but that doesn't mean our list wasn't weren't extremely talented.
They just wanted to pigeon hole us as a team of battlers outside Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt & Martin. Then it just became about Dusty.
Grimes, Prestia, Vlastuin, Broad, Edwards etc. all star footballers yet underrated constantly.
It's still happening now. For some reason the 'experts' don't acknowledge our talent despite winning multiple Premierships.

 

[turk-d-tiger]

Question i would love the answer to would be with Taranto , Hopper at Richmond now
If we were to Rookie list RCD how much would it benefit RCD development watching , Learning and training along side players that are similar size and play similar poisition/role to what we had hope Riley had been able to do.

Is the player being picked up at pick 87 better than what RCD would become in 2 years time given that chance

 

[The_General]

I think you are probably right regarding Hardwick and his unswerving loyalty to his favourite players. But I don't see it as a weakness, I think it might even be a strength.

The bottom line will always be that he won three flags with a list that on paper was probably not even top 4 in the league. If he asks his guys to believe in his vision, then he has to believe in them. And I don't think his loyalty to his players has come at that great a cost in terms of developing younger players. Indeed I think his time as coach, since 2017 anyway, has been marked with a small but continuous stream of opportunity for players who want it enough.

Since 2017 we are a champion team, not a team of champions.

For reference, I would encourage people to look at what Jim Valvano did with North Carolina State in 1983. There is a really good doco on it called Survive and Advance. But it really only tells about 70% of the story. You need to read some of the excellent books about what he did that season. It was based around loyalty to what he had and really believing in those guys.

And for mine, I think this North Carolina State's 1983 season has to be the most improbable outcome in the history of sport. Big statement but like I said, if you aren't familiar with the story, check it out.

It's a hard argument to mount on these forums, but I agree with you. I think the testment to how great a coach Hardwick is, is the way he's got good ordinary players to look like stars in a system built to their strengths. But it doesn't go well in these parts.

The 1994 North Melbourne Giants are up there with improbable outcomes. They were tipped to finish near last that year, and ended up winning the Championship. They had 1 great player, 2 good ones, and the rest were role players or rookies not ready to walk on the court. I think they used JV as inspiration that year.

 

[The_General]

Question i would love the answer to would be with Taranto , Hopper at Richmond now
If we were to Rookie list RCD how much would it benefit RCD development watching , Learning and training along side players that are similar size and play similar poisition/role to what we had hope Riley had been able to do.

Is the player being picked up at pick 87 better than what RCD would become in 2 years time given that chance

I think your question is wrong.

Is RCD likely to step up to become a good AFL player. The answer is likely no. He might be able to get to a place of being a Dunstan type, crash n bash inside mid. But I think unless he can turn his entire endurance level around, that's a best case for him now. Not being able to run out VFL games in his 4th year (5th?) is pretty damning.

Then, can we find a potentially good AFL player at pick 87? What will they look like with 2 years development?

We have a reasonably good idea what we're going to get with RCD. Low risk, but low reward.
Pick 87 for random player, high risk, possbly high reward.

 

[craig]

Our players might get criminally underrated by the anti Richmond brigade in the media but that doesn't mean our list wasn't weren't extremely talented.
They just wanted to pigeon hole us as a team of battlers outside Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt & Martin. Then it just became about Dusty.
Grimes, Prestia, Vlastuin, Broad, Edwards etc. all star footballers yet underrated constantly.
It's still happening now. For some reason the 'experts' don't acknowledge our talent despite winning multiple Premierships.

They can all GAGF the haters.

 

[tigerdell]

Question i would love the answer to would be with Taranto , Hopper at Richmond now
If we were to Rookie list RCD how much would it benefit RCD development watching , Learning and training along side players that are similar size and play similar poisition/role to what we had hope Riley had been able to do.

Is the player being picked up at pick 87 better than what RCD would become in 2 years time given that chance

On the flipside is that RCD would get zero opportunity with Hopanto
So it would be 2 years of VFL footy until Cotch and Dusty retire

I dont think that would help RCD.

Instead we might pick a beanpole who needs 2 years of training and development

 

[turk-d-tiger]

On the flipside is that RCD would get zero opportunity with Hopanto
So it would be 2 years of VFL footy until Cotch and Dusty retire

I dont think that would help RCD.

Instead we might pick a beanpole who needs 2 years of training and development

I think we only get another 13-16 more games out of Cotchin and he gets to 300 (as he should)
Prestia will miss between 5-10 games every year
Graham seems to lose 3-4 games every year also
Dusty ??? Who knows what happens

 

[17]

Question i would love the answer to would be with Taranto , Hopper at Richmond now
If we were to Rookie list RCD how much would it benefit RCD development watching , Learning and training along side players that are similar size and play similar poisition/role to what we had hope Riley had been able to do.

Is the player being picked up at pick 87 better than what RCD would become in 2 years time given that chance

Yes, it might benefit him but only at the margin, given he's already had the benefit of training alongside Cotchin, Prestia and Martin for four years.
But he would still not be at AFL quality.

Yes, it's better to take a chance on a kid drafted at 87, because unlike RCD that kid is still a possibility to become AFL quality, remote as that statistically is.

Richmond poured four years of (somewhat Covid interupted) development into RCD and have made the call to let him go.
It's time for others to do the same.

 

[craig]

I think we only get another 13-16 more games out of Cotchin and he gets to 300 (as he should)
Prestia will miss between 5-10 games every year
Graham seems to lose 3-4 games every year also
Dusty ??? Who knows what happens

Its ok RFC will just take Green or Callaghan after the Great Sage Equal of Heaven Chimp retires

 

[Razorgang2]

Ridiculous comment.
It's soooo hard to win a flag let alone 3 in 4 yrs, just ask Stkilda & Footscary and our form in the back end of 2017 was outstanding.
Then it continued for a further 3 years is no fluke.
Brilliant coach, outstanding team.

Probably your most lucid and succint comment I have seen. Well done Ziggs.

 

[The Big Richo]

RCD would be a perfect fit for the 20th AFL licence, TBR's Barbarians.

 

[Dont Argue]

RCD would be a perfect fit for the 20th AFL licence, TBR's Barbarians.

You mean Contrarians?

 

[Streak]

It's a hard argument to mount on these forums, but I agree with you. I think the testment to how great a coach Hardwick is, is the way he's got good ordinary players to look like stars in a system built to their strengths. But it doesn't go well in these parts.

The 1994 North Melbourne Giants are up there with improbable outcomes. They were tipped to finish near last that year, and ended up winning the Championship. They had 1 great player, 2 good ones, and the rest were role players or rookies not ready to walk on the court. I think they used JV as inspiration that year.

You articulate it better than I do

 

[No 4]

Our players might get criminally underrated by the anti Richmond brigade in the media but that doesn't mean our list wasn't weren't extremely talented.
They just wanted to pigeon hole us as a team of battlers outside Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt & Martin. Then it just became about Dusty.
Grimes, Prestia, Vlastuin, Broad, Edwards etc. all star footballers yet underrated constantly.
It's still happening now. For some reason the 'experts' don't acknowledge our talent despite winning multiple Premierships.

When we won 2017, I said to a keen melbourne supporter, Richmond needs to win another or two to be recognised as a top team. Still waiting for the recognition.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

When we won 2017, I said to a keen melbourne supporter, Richmond needs to win another or two to be recognised as a top team. Still waiting for the recognition.

The Bulldogs seem to get more credit if they merely look like making finals even though they only won one premiership 6 years ago.

 

[Little Ziggyadee]

When we won 2017, I said to a keen melbourne supporter, Richmond needs to win another or two to be recognised as a top team. Still waiting for the recognition.

Compare Geelong premiership coverage
To ours of those 3 yrs?
They hate us. They thought the 1st was a fluke. The 2nd one, they were alerted to the domination taking place and by the time we were rocking in the 3rd They were changing the rules..
The can get Fked