Missing Mini Submarine | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Missing Mini Submarine

K3 said:
Really sad stuff! My thoughts go out to the families of the deceased.

I hope anyone involved in the sub is never allowed within a country mile of such things in the future. Never!
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Questions need to be asked, but its a bit early to be declaring that. Afterall this sub did get to Titanic at least twice before successfully so in terms of the structural integrity of the unit it was there and able to do what they said it would. Questions need to be asked around the maintenance of the sub, and the understanding and testing of repeated instances of that hull design to those extreme pressures. We know it could get to those depths, but with it being carbon fibre and not steel, does the structural integrity hold over time.

We can jump to conclusions very quickly, but we also have to accept that things we do are tough from an engineering perspective. In many ways, the design of this sub is way more advanced and structurally sound than any plane or any space shuttle as the pressures it needs to withstand are much greater, and as we know from space travel, accidents can occur. Things on space shuttles can break down over time, rivets can come loose etc. Its the same with planes, things happen that are unforeseen. Its an unfortunate outcome of a business like submarines, space shuttles and aeroplanes that the most that we can learn about the design of these pieces of equipment are when they fail.
 
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Panthera Tigris said:
I know it sounds morbid and perhaps a bit disrespectful. But I'm genuinely curious, what materially happens to the bodies in that scenario? Obviously the people are both crushed to death and drowned. I wouldn't have thought an implosion is the same situation as someone standing right next to an explosion, that they are blown apart and their body becomes many little pieces, but of course I could be entirely wrong on that. Hence the question.
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@AngryAnt's spoiler above has the details you're after.
 
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mrposhman said:
It would obviously depend on the depth (the deeper the depth, the higher the pressure) but I would think they wouldn't have even known anything. It would have been 1 second I'm here, the next they aren't.
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Yeah, particularly with a carbon fibre hull which is very strong, light but also very brittle. Seems likely that the hull fatigued over time and guess what, the Oceangate company had no way to scan or check for carbon fibre cracks or weaknesses.

The whistleblower that Oceangate tried to sue for non-disclosure a few years back had interesting things to say about the hull and the perspex observation window and general safety issues.



And

Whistleblower raised safety concerns about OceanGate's tourist submarine, was fired

A whistleblower had raised serious safety concerns about OceanGate's tourist submarine called Titan that went missing with five people during an expedition to the Titanic's wreckage in the North Atlantic
news.webindia123.com news.webindia123.com
 
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Panthera Tigris said:
I know it sounds morbid and perhaps a bit disrespectful. But I'm genuinely curious, what materially happens to the bodies in that scenario? Obviously the people are both crushed to death and drowned. I wouldn't have thought an implosion is the same situation as someone standing right next to an explosion, that they are blown apart and their body becomes many little pieces, but of course I could be entirely wrong on that. Hence the question.
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You are right, its the opposite. Explosion is when your body is ripped apart outwardly and broken into many little pieces. Implosion is the opposite, all the energy is pushed inward, so in essence it would be like putting something into a vice. Everything becomes compacted by the sheer amount of pressure.
 
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AngryAnt said:
Yeah, particularly with a carbon fibre hull which is very strong, light but also very brittle. Seems likely that the hull fatigued over time and guess what, the Oceangate had no way to scan or check for carbon fibre cracks or weaknesses.
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This bit in particular needs to be investigated, their maintenance procedures around the hull design may have been severely inadequate.

What they have designed is actually quite revolutionary, and could change the make up of design of water bearing craft. As you say carbon fibre is very strong, but is also lightweight. Its why carbon fibre is used on basically every aeroplane these days as it makes the fuselage so much lighter and reduces fuels costs significantly, and this could pave the way for more innovative designs on submarines and submersibles all around the world, as most are still made out of steel, so this could be a massive move forward in innovation, however the 1 thing that everyone will be asking, is does prolonged use protect the structural integrity enough, at least as much as steel does and thats the biggest question and for Oceangate, what tests did they undertake to ensure that the structutal integrity wouldn't degrade over time.
 
mrposhman said:
You are right, its the opposite. Explosion is when your body is ripped apart outwardly and broken into many little pieces. Implosion is the opposite, all the energy is pushed inward, so in essence it would be like putting something into a vice. Everything becomes compacted by the sheer amount of pressure.
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Like really rich stockcubes?
 
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AngryAnt said:
Yes, but after implosion comes explosion - after extreme compression, everything is released in an explosion, hence you get the debris field.
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So like shuffling deckchairs while a really rich stockcube is dropped in a enourmous seafood chowder?

* note; i feel for these dead peoples families, but if you pay half a million bucks to go to the bottom of the ocean in a cobbled together hitech can, its the very defination of taking your chances. I dont really feel any sadness or sympathy for people who do extreme things - if you wanna climb the highest glacier wearing only a kevlar buttplug, or surf the biggest wave on a bamboo toothbrush, good luck to you, but if you die, i dont care about you dying doing what you can afford to love, and i dont think there should be any publically funded rescue attempt.

I feel for the 100,000 poor people who froze and starved to death and collapsed dead doing what they hated yesterday
 
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mrposhman said:
You are right, its the opposite. Explosion is when your body is ripped apart outwardly and broken into many little pieces. Implosion is the opposite, all the energy is pushed inward, so in essence it would be like putting something into a vice. Everything becomes compacted by the sheer amount of pressure.
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So what remains of the bodies? Is there a mass (albeit tiny from the pressure) somewhere down there that could eventually float to the surface?
 
Condolences to the families and friends of those who perished.

I wonder what the banging noises were that they were being hearing every 30 minutes, it must be like a blacksmiths workshop down there.
 
AngryAnt said:
All passengers signed legal waivers - whether these would stand up in courts, who knows.
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Would I be right in saying that the legal waivers would become redundant if it was found that the Titan was "unfit for purpose".

Seems to me that a long & expensive legal stoush may well be forthcoming.
 
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eZyT said:
So like shuffling deckchairs while a really rich stockcube is dropped in a enourmous seafood chowder?

* note; i feel for these dead peoples families, but if you pay half a million bucks to go to the bottom of the ocean in a cobbled together hitech can, its the very defination of taking your chances. I dont really feel any sadness or sympathy for people who do extreme things - if you wanna climb the highest glacier wearing only a kevlar buttplug, or surf the biggest wave on a bamboo toothbrush, good luck to you, but if you die, i dont care about you dying doing what you can afford to love, and i dont think there should be any publically funded rescue attempt.

I feel for the 100,000 poor people who froze and starved to death and collapsed dead doing what they hated yesterday
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I am with you @eZyT yes devasting loss for all concerned but i hope the billionaires club who can afford these extravagant endeavours delve into their deep pockets to fund the rescue mission which would have cost squillions.
 
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TT33 said:
Would I be right in saying that the legal waivers would become redundant if it was found that the Titan was "unfit for purpose".

Seems to me that a long & expensive legal stoush may well be forthcoming.
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Interesting report in The Guardian from Reuters on the legal situation:
"The Reuters report on the potential legal situation facing OceanGate going forward also highlights some interesting quirks about how maritime law works in these situations.

For instance, the report notes that under maritime law, owners of vessels involved in an accident may ask a court in the US to limit damages claims by family members to the current value of the vessel.

Since the Titan was destroyed, Reuters notes, “that would be zero”.

But to do this, OceanGate would need to prove it had no knowledge of potential defects with the submersible and would carry the burden of proof, which is a hard standard to meet.

Another maritime law, the Death on the High Seas Act, limits the amount people who were financially dependent on another who died in a naval accident to only a portion of their future earnings. Plaintiffs also cannot recover losses for pain and suffering."

Regardless of that the company can hardly continue business, no-one will want to use them.
 
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IanG said:
Regardless of that the company can hardly continue business, no-one will want to use them.
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plus the CEO is imploded micro algae in a deckchair, 4000m below sea-level
 
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