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Woke politics discussion
- Thread starter Brodders17
- Start date
What rubbish.
Les Girls didn't exist in your day, comedy with men dressed as women, look at Mick Jagger at the Hyde Park concert in 1969 in a dress, David Bowie on the cover of the Man Who Sold the World, Tom Boys at school, etc, many many examples abound throughout history.
Let's face it, the clothes we wear should not be tied to our sex.
All this before I mention Greek soldiers, Scots in kilts etc.
DS
There is a BIG difference between ppl wearing a kilt and someone coming out and suddenly saying that they feel like a woman today.
Who doesn't have days where they feel less masculine or feminen? But now it is all about people putting themselves in boxes so they can get a pretty flag and have a month to celebrate themselves in, because, you know, being *insert new identity* now makes me super special and super interesting, and being a teenager isn't quite a shitty now.
In high school my bestie for a while was a chick who was an absolute tom boy, she would even jump into scuffles with the boys. If she was a kid now, everyone would be telling her that the was probably a boy and should stop wearing dresses, and go on various medical body sterilising drugs*. Back then, everyone just thought she was awesome, and she was!
* I had a friend who's daughter was just like the above example. She was a big girl, loved sport and to get in there. After six months at a certain school, she came out and said that she felt she was a boy (having had ZERO such thought at ANY TIME in the previous twelve-years of her life), and she changed her name and started going to a shrink in the pre-needs of getting medicated to stop her boobs growing and stop her period.
** I have another friend who has fully transitioned from male to female. All the drugs and full surgical gender change. During a night out, she told me that she had felt 'wrong' since she was around 3-4. IMO there is a HUGE difference between this person, and someone who suddenly, as a teen, decides that they are *x*. IMO it is a societal construct that just shouldn't be here, and certainly shouldn't be carried on about as being some marvelous, super-interesting, flag-waving, party-worthy thing. 2023 trivialising such massive decisions that will impact these, usually, kids lives forever more.
If someone has always felt they were in the wrong body, power to you. However, if you follow some nob on socials, and just love their existence and want to be just like them, this is something that should be actively pushed back against.
Carlotta & Carmen what dishes they were performing up The Cross in the 1960/1970.
As with all things in life mate, there are quality exceptions to every rule!
The big question has to be... did you buy any of his socks???
Is this not the point?
The way that society puts people in boxes and tells them what they can and can't wear according to a small part of their biology (a couple of genes) is the problem.
I'm with Germaine Greer on this one, the body you are born with is what you get, I'd say most people would like some improvements or even just some changes, the issue is how one aspect, biological sex, is used to define so much of our social roles. Its BS if you ask me. One thing which does frustrate me about the trans campaigners is that they are not challenging the gender defined divisions, they define themselves by the very thing they claim to oppose - gender. It is either switch genders or both/neither. How about challenging the very notion of gender, the very notion that biological sex somehow defines how you can act?
DS
Hey K3
Hey nice post in total back there K3. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
There are lots of issues regarding 'transitioning' which only time and data will tell. Never having studied 'gender studies' myself one thing I feel is accurate is that there are some kids who authentically feel gender dysphoric. How traumatic would that be.
But there are also others who - for whatever reason - feel gender dysphoric but actually aren't . They might be simply gay, unable to fit in socially, on the autism spectrum, particularly more feminine or masculine than 'normal' contrary to gender stereotyping or who the hell knows what.
The thing is woke social media which is naturally most attractive to the young combined with the leanings of the woke academic cognoscenti who feel motivated to enlighten those who do not subscribe to their same progressive ideologies and theories and now the woke corporate culture nurture 'transitioning' without nuance as if it is as clear and true as mathematics. It is, in a peculiar way, a sort of secular ideological version of the far right's religiosity and preachiness, as someone way smarter than me put it.
Hey I pretty much agree with most of what you said.
One thing, that part of biology that you refer to as small in reality manifests itself around the world in women getting the *smile* beaten out of them by men because generally speaking men are biologically physically dominant, for the very same reason those couple of genes see women prostituted and raped by men not the other way round. They are also the reason women and not men menstruate and they also allow biological women and not men to carry a new human life inside their body. They also allow women to breast feed babies. These are the most visibly obvious realities those couple of genes bare. Don’t think it’s fair to trivialize the impact of those couple of genes.
A major problem when talking about trans issues in general is the language. Sex is male which is a man and female which is a women. Gender is masculine and feminine which either sex can display to whatever degree they feel authentically represents them. So I'm in the Canadian feminist Megan Murphy camp on this issue who like many old school feminists believe sex is material or a biological reality – females have the double x gene in 99% of every cell in their body which is why skeletal bones can be dug up from a century ago and accurately identified as female not male. And women have the biological apparatus functioning or not functioning to give cause to a pregnancy – something men simply don’t have. That’s a huge difference.
Gender on the other hand is a social construct - behaviours that men (the patriarchy) have imposed on everyone in society, men and women. Historically men have decided how women and men should dress, behave, basically their entire role in society. These behaviours however can change and adapt with the times. Gender is fluid. Sex is not.
Sex is a physical reality that can not be changed and the idea that you can buy your way into being a women through purchasing medical procedures like breasts & a hole (vagina in a transwoman's head) is both objectifying women reducing women to mere body parts and so misogynistic and of course is totally delusional. Baby girls are not born with an innate desire to wear pink or play with barbie dolls they are trained to do so by their gender conforming parents and society at large.
Agree with you on the trans activists and gender. Wouldn't it be great if everyone not just trans campaigners challenged patriarchal gender roles so that everyone felt free to live an authentic life experience free of patriarchal stereotyping.
The thing that *smile* me is how many vocal trans activists usually transwomen (biological men please note not transmen - wonder why that is... ) with the support of the regressive left woke movement generally speaking undermine the rights of girls and women by insisting they insert themselves into domains specifically designated for girls and women to flourish and feel safe – sports, changing rooms, toilets, domestic violence centres, rape refuges, jobs specifically designated for women etc
Ironically this insistence of transwomen (men pretending to be women) supported by the left who traditionally support the marginalised (of which biological women make up 50% of that population), to forcibly will themselves into that part of life designated for women is so openly misogynistic it fills me with despair.
I think the other area that hasn't been mentioned enough, is that the most damage being caused, is being caused to children.
It really feels like they are being used by those older, to get power, prestige and the outcomes they want. Like so many past pushes, it is the very, very, very few who are looking to benefit. In this realm, this benefit will be at the expense of many children.
It really feels like they are being used by those older, to get power, prestige and the outcomes they want. Like so many past pushes, it is the very, very, very few who are looking to benefit. In this realm, this benefit will be at the expense of many children.
This thread highlights that the word "woke" is really only useful to quickly identify a RWNJ. Can't think of anyone else that uses it. Though Dermie did recently call the crack down on bumps and tackles as a result of woke supporters wanting to sterilize our game. But that's more evidence that those who use woke don't know what the word means.
I think the actual definition of the word and the way people use it and what it means to them means the definition of the word will change and/or it will have two definitions. My kids have picked up this common type of usage of the word through friends / school and not the dictionary definition. When did 'gay' stop meaning happy and start meaning 'homosexual' as a pejorative term? It evolved.
The history of the word “gay”
by Jordan Redman Staff Writer Do you know what the word gay really means? The word gay dates back to the 12th century and comes from the Old French “gai,” meaning “full of joy or mirth.” It may also relate to the Old High German “gahi,” meaning impulsive.
I feel when I watch Apple TV/Disney some of the shows have 'woke' content because they literally force in trans and gay characters way above normal population percentages, and it doesn't even really fit what is going on in the plot. I know this is not what 'woke' means according to the dictionary (at the moment) but it feels to me like they have a top-down mandate on hitting certain targets and that clearly shows sometimes in the writing. My objection is more an eye roll of the forced representation in an unnatural way than any objection to seeing these types of characters in a show. A more realistic show would probably be someone getting persecuted for being different or trying to hide and keep it secret / getting ostracised from a group they were in etc. vs everyone being super accepting of it and supportive of it and then how that gets dealt with vs most plots having two girls or boys kissing each other.
WOKE: aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
Definition of WOKE
aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) —often used in contexts that suggest someone's expressed beliefs about such matters are not backed with genuine concern or action… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
Dont get sucked in by the bigots and racists from the right:
How the word ‘woke’ was weaponised by the right
The term is meant to denote an attentiveness to important issues. But the likes of Laurence Fox and Toby Young have begun using it in a very different waywww.theguardian.com
its just an update on 'Chardonnay Socialists'
people will hate and label until the end of time.
but I heard an interesting palliative care woman on the radio, who had nursed 1000's of people out of the world.
She said the one thing in common, was that people die as they live.
so I take solace,
that all the hateful scared greedy *smile*,
will die a hateful, scared, greedy, *smile* y death
people will hate and label until the end of time.
but I heard an interesting palliative care woman on the radio, who had nursed 1000's of people out of the world.
She said the one thing in common, was that people die as they live.
so I take solace,
that all the hateful scared greedy *smile*,
will die a hateful, scared, greedy, *smile* y death
I quite liked this definition from Urban Dictionary...
However, as time passed by, people started using this term recklessly, assigning this term to themselves or someone they know to boost their confidence and reassure them that they have the moral high grounds and are fighting for the better world. And sometimes even using it as a way to protect themselves from other people's opinion, by considering the 'outsider' as non-woke. While people that are in line with their belief as woke. Meaning that those 'outsiders' have been brainwash by the society and couldn't see the truth. Thus, filtering everything that the 'outsider' gives regardless whether it is rationale or not.
And as of now, the original meaning is slowly fading and instead, is used more often to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like-minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion.
Woke
When this term became popularized, initially the meaning of this term was when an individual become more aware of the social injustice. Or basically, any current affairs related like biased, discrimination, or double-standards.However, as time passed by, people started using this term recklessly, assigning this term to themselves or someone they know to boost their confidence and reassure them that they have the moral high grounds and are fighting for the better world. And sometimes even using it as a way to protect themselves from other people's opinion, by considering the 'outsider' as non-woke. While people that are in line with their belief as woke. Meaning that those 'outsiders' have been brainwash by the society and couldn't see the truth. Thus, filtering everything that the 'outsider' gives regardless whether it is rationale or not.
And as of now, the original meaning is slowly fading and instead, is used more often to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like-minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion.
I think the actual definition of the word and the way people use it and what it means to them means the definition of the word will change and/or it will have two definitions. My kids have picked up this common type of usage of the word through friends / school and not the dictionary definition. When did 'gay' stop meaning happy and start meaning 'homosexual' as a pejorative term? It evolved.
The history of the word “gay”
by Jordan Redman Staff Writer Do you know what the word gay really means? The word gay dates back to the 12th century and comes from the Old French “gai,” meaning “full of joy or mirth.” It may also relate to the Old High German “gahi,” meaning impulsive.www.gayly.com
I feel when I watch Apple TV/Disney some of the shows have 'woke' content because they literally force in trans and gay characters way above normal population percentages, and it doesn't even really fit what is going on in the plot. I know this is not what 'woke' means according to the dictionary (at the moment) but it feels to me like they have a top-down mandate on hitting certain targets and that clearly shows sometimes in the writing. My objection is more an eye roll of the forced representation in an unnatural way than any objection to seeing these types of characters in a show. A more realistic show would probably be someone getting persecuted for being different or trying to hide and keep it secret / getting ostracised from a group they were in etc. vs everyone being super accepting of it and supportive of it and then how that gets dealt with vs most plots having two girls or boys kissing each other.
It certainly feels like there is a huge agenda being pushed. The big question, for me anyway, is why?
If the companies wanted to promote inclusion, they should be starting with members of our society who have suffered the most and longest... Indigenous, and those with physical and mental issues. If we could normalise people in wheelchairs, the deaf, and those with Autism etc, I think this would go a lot further in providing benefit to what is a large number of our society's members.
This reminds of the civil rights movement in the US (and probably here) where women were asked to subordinate their struggle for equal pay/rights etc as the civil rights movement was seen as more important.
No, there is no queue. If there is injustice and a lack of inclusion for different groups then deal with all them, don't prioritise some above others.
Its not about putting groups into a queue. It is more about meeting the need to improve inclusion of 'the many' above the trendy 'few'.
All marginalised groups should be represented, but it shouldn't be based on a current trend, it should be based on how many people will be positively impacted by the representation created. This isn't happening atm.
